Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Pakistan: To Wank or not to Wank...

Yah its been a little while.... but jeebus, my life has been a bit of a whirlwind lately....a certain project of mine is taking up way more time than i anticipated.

Recently a fellow blogger posted an interview with yours truly. Check it out, thanks to RenKiss of Cultural Fascinations for helping to spread the word. It's a good cause people, i cant tell you enough...sexuality in Pakistan, or the lack thereof, affects our people in more ways than you can imagine. As a nation we need to be more aware about the issues surrounding it. We've got to be comfortable discussing this stuff, because without dialogue, theres no telling what kind damage our own thoughts can do to us.

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but where were we... ah yes.... still talking about 'self-help', and thats a topic that seems to have sparked a huge amount of interest. So I'll blab on a bit more.




Through my sexplorations on the interweb, one thing that kept cropping up in relation to touching yourself is a quote from the Qur'an:

“And those who guard their chastity. Except from their wives or those their right hands possess - for them, they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors." 23.5-7

The words ‘those their right hand possesses’ refer to slaves or captives…yup…so you are legitimately allowed to rape sleep with slaves, by this totally moral god guy ...no mention of 'consent'.... because you don't need consent from slaves, obvs, duh.

Simply put, it’s saying that sex is only for your spouse or slave (not even going to get into how many ways the slave sex is wrong....an almighty, all knowing god would know that slavery is morally fucked up, no?). Anyone looking for action beyond that is no good. And since most of us don’t have slaves anymore (no thanks to 'god', who totally okays it in his book), I’m assuming sexual activity is solely reserved for your spouse. Even you yourself are not entitled…wtf! Slave rape - ok. Maturbation - NOT ok. Priorities.

You see that same kind of mentality in the Christine O'Donnell video i posted in the last post, where people refer to sexual acts outside of marriage as 'adulterous' - so its not *just* the Muslim world... plenty of such types in every religion.

Words are always open to 'interpretation' though, which is where the inconsistencies and confusion comes in (god wasn't a great communicator). I did find some 'liberal' Muslim websites that claimed it was ok to masturbate if that was going to prevent you from committing the greater sins of adultery or pre-marital sex.

This explanation makes a bit more sense to me…certainly a lot more progressive than I expected…

But it can get a little boring reading page after page on the same topic, saying basically the same thing. So, I decided i'd go looking for a 'Muslim chat room' and see what people had to say first hand. Ah chat rooms …they had to be out there still… I remember when the internet was a relatively new thing – ‘chatting’ online with strangers was all the rage, but I haven’t heard of anyone doing it for like 8 years at least.

Perseverance pays though, cuz I did find some interesting chat rooms…the first day I was a young man in search of guidance…

*Note: Irrelevant material has been edited out from the conversation


*giggle* enjoy me trying to act like a young conservative Muslim guy:

Me: I am a young man…hope you can understand the problems that come with hormones and youth.

Him: what is the problem?

Me: Well…how do I say this? Do you think masturbation is a sin?

Him: No, depends what matthab you follow – do you follow an imam?

Me: I am muslim…don’t really follow an imam, but I pray at the mosque

Him: most say it is allowed..

Him: Imam Hanafi says only if it stops you committing a sin.

Him: but most imamz say it is allowed

Me: are you serious? but I feel so guilty


Him: If you masturbate to porno then there is a problem…

Me: Oh…but isn’t it the same with or without porno? I was reading online
And I don’t know how reliable this is…

Me: Online it said that masturbation is like adultery

Him: No, masturbation is a measure to control yourself.
Think abt it.
All that hormonic action not being released…
What will it do?
Make you prone to true adultery

Me: True…true…


* * *

And that was the last thing he said before his connection died.

-I have to say, the guy made some sense. He claimed to be quite a religious guy too, and he certainly seemed to know what he was talking about religion-wise. But who knows – maybe he was a female trying to write a blog about sex and pretending to be someone else….you never really know online. But – talking to him and seeing that he was offering  milder, more reasonable advice than "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR MASTURBATING" was encouraging.

As in, there are still some semi-reasonable folks in religious, preachy chat rooms, that use some degree of logic.. I don’t think ‘hormonic’ is a word…but I get what he’s saying.

The next day, I wanted to be a woman who was seeking similar advice from other women. What surprised me, is that being a ‘guy’ in a chat room…other guys were still willing to talk….but being a woman in the chatroom seemed to deter other female chatters from wanting a conversation with me. Weird. I tried for ages to talk to another female…but they just wouldn’t respond…and I couldn’t exactly ask a guy in a Pakistani chat room about masturbation and his opinions because either he would think I was a guy…or I was a slut… or try to have cyber sex with me or something… I don’t know…he could even become offended…

…anyhow, since I waited around for hours trying to talk to any girl….and had no luck I decided to go ahead and talk to a guy instead...its not like he’d know who I was anyway. So I thought of a fake name, decided on how old i wanted to be.. and off i went;

_Lhr1: This is A*** from lahore
girl22: nice to meet u ...
_Lhr1: 25 yers old , employee in software company
_Lhr1: thts all about me
girl22: good for u ... im 22, and i live in toronto
_Lhr1: thankyou .
girl22: i've been to lahore once when i was younger...but my family is from khi
_Lhr1: o ok
_Lhr1: nice to meet u too
_Lhr1: may i know ur name ?
girl22: i'm still in uni
girl22: My name is
girl22: Sarah
_Lhr1: nice name.
_Lhr1: so Sarah, do u ask ur 5 time prayers well on time ?
girl22: i try my best... but not always
_Lhr1: i say u like to u ask ur prayers 5 time
girl22: why do you ask
_Lhr1: just asking
girl22: what about you?
_Lhr1: its our duty , i think


Oh lord, this guy is on a serious mission….so far he’s asked me my name, where I’m from and then jumped straight to whether I pray 5 times a day or not….that certainly rubbed me the wrong way (no pun intended) but like the good little girl that i am... i lied and said I try....

girl22: it certainly is...
_Lhr1: Alhamdulillah i try my best to do tht
girl22: do you have a lot of knowledge about islam?
_Lhr1: listen me ...sarah..if a person is comming back from shop after purchasing milk
girl22: yes?
_Lhr1: and milk is dropping on earth ...i think every one ask me hello hello ur milk is dropping ..even if they are stranger..
_Lhr1: but when a muslim skip to ask his prayers on time ..no body tell him/her tht O Mr. /Ms ur losing ur good deed...
girl22: hahahahah
girl22: good point
girl22: great...ur a wise man


LOL - That was some metaphor for telling people to pray…I guess he's trying to say that if you’ve just bought milk, and its spilling…and you can’t tell…then people on the street are going to let you know…if you skip your prayers it should be the same way – ugh, whut? That comparison to losing prayer time and spilling milk is cringeworthy. Milk is a real tangible thing buddy.

I’m all about letting people live the way they want, as long as it doesn’t harm or impose on others…so I don't really agree with how pushy he is about this… and wow…he's really got just one thing on his mind…an internet-evangelist…


_Lhr1: you r u going to make angry ur Beloved Prophet ...muhammad (s.a.w)
girl22: why?
girl22: im agreeing with u
_Lhr1: when u skip ur prayers....muhammad (s.a.w) feel sadness


What on earth is he smoking? I'm agreeing with the guy...which is obviously not my real life POV... and still, he says I'm gonna make the 'Beloved Prophet' angry...

_Lhr1: dont hv much knowledge but ...i think wht i hv , i like to forwrd it

Yah, I picked up on that :P

girl22: ur doing a good duty by imparting your wisdom..

*cringe* (I had to believable, come on)

girl22: but is that ur only purpose for chatting online?
_Lhr1: no please
_Lhr1: i chat on all topics
_Lhr1: i try to become a good muslim
girl22: yeah me too
girl22: its not easy ..
girl22: do u think its wrong for men and women to chat online?
_Lhr1: its easy Sarah but we r too weak
_Lhr1: yes i think its wrong ..but if u hv good purpose thn i think its good also
_Lhr1: wht about ur mom dad ?
_Lhr1: they harsh on u if u dont follow islam ?
girl22: no... not so much
girl22: i have lots of questions... i need to find someone to ask


(As you can see I’m on a mission too – I’m desperately trying to lead upto the part where I can ask him his opinion on masturbation)

_Lhr1: they used to say their prayers ?

Are you fucking kidding me? this guy is concerned with my parents prayer habits too?! In the real world, i might have uppercut him in the crotch. What a fucking nosy moron. But alas I have some questions to ask, and so far this is the only access i've had to truly 'conservative' thoughts.

girl22: yea they do
_Lhr1: u can ask...but i am not a scholar
_Lhr1: wht i hv , i will reply u on the base of my poor knowledge
girl22: they are kind of personal ...female questions...
girl22: im a bit shy... but i can only ask someone over chat because i feel too embarrassed face to face...


Alright, building up….here it comes

girl22: will u mind...?
_Lhr1: ok
_Lhr1: no please
_Lhr1: u can ask..
girl22: are u sure?
_Lhr1: yes Sarah
_Lhr1: u can ask...
girl22: ok ...
girl22: umm....do u think masturbation is haraam? (forbidden)
_Lhr1: but dont mind if i suddnly got disconect..u know its big issu in pk about electricity


Oh Pakistan and it’s electricity problems…constant disconnections and ongoing blackouts….I remember living through that! It was frustrating beyond belief…!

girl22: yea
girl22: do u think its a sin?
_Lhr1: masturbation ??


Uh-oh – have I offended him?

girl22: yea... i told u it was an embarrassing question
_Lhr1: please ask me in simple
girl22: u don;t understand?
_Lhr1: no please
_Lhr1: u know we pki r not much good in english
_Lhr1: i am sory for tht



No – wait, he just doesn’t understand the word….good thing I haven’t pissed him off yet, but explaining this in simpler English may do just that…lol

girl22: ahha no problem...
_Lhr1: ask me again
girl22: ok... uh... well ... masturbation is when someone touches themself for sexual pleasure
girl22: hello ?
_Lhr1: ahh
_Lhr1: i m thinking about it
_Lhr1: please wait
girl22: oh ok ... do u understand what i'm talking about though?
_Lhr1 has left.
girl22: hello?

Unforunately, that was the end of our conversation. I don’t know if his electricity went out as he had warned me it might…or if he just didn’t know how to respond. Great timing though, eh? Fak!

Well, discovering diverse Pakistani opinions on masturbation has been one of *the* most difficult tasks this blog has put upon me so far. I’ve tried different avenues, different types of people….it’s certainly been an exhausting journey….my chatroom friend has left the building… and I’m done with chatting…

So this is how this post ends.

Sucks that we won't know how _Lhr1 would've answered the question...but i think thats pretty representative of what a lot of people with his world view would've done... even if i had been talking to them face to face... they'd just leave...or have me burnt at the stake.. *shrug*

8 comments:

  1. hahahahaha.... nice pic illustration. jergens lotion + fine clinix. every expat workers companions in middle east specially ksa.
    Nice tribute to our president (moustaches & topy)

    ReplyDelete
  2. @Anon 5:48: I don't think that the picture is of the muchi mango is the president :p

    But I mist say Eiynah, I do love your mango illustrations. And wow, when I realised that poor idiot you were talking to had bad English, then I realised you entered a territory with a completely different mindset. Now I must add, that guy very likely might've had a conservative mindset if his main frame of reference is in Urdu. During the Zia administration, much liberal thought in Pakistan, was hunted like dogs and Search and Destroyed in the Urdu language. Maybe the internet can help its return, but sigh, when in Urdu's own home liberal thought has been hunted to extinction, regeneration could take a long time.

    In relation to what you were discussing about sexuality, I wanted to mention that it probably is necessary from a population control point of view. Our people are already overbreeding, and my God we need to cool it with the unrestrained sex (inside and outside marriage), or maybe have some talk about population control.

    Family planning methodology has to be spread, but I'm not sure if this is the blog to help with. I don't know who else can tell Pakistan it needs to control the rate at which it pops children out.

    I also don't know how the government can broach the subject. Maybe if we mentioned our internet search habits first :P

    Lastly, I wondered if you understand Urdu? Here we have a tv show that is like Pakistan's Stephen Colbert (although the tone of preachy social conservatism is definitely acuurate) and he's complaining about women being more focused on their career than on getting married off at the appropriate age of 17. This show is good at taking our politicians and media down a peg (in the manner Stephen Colbert does, of using conservative formats against conservative thought, but it does smack of an old fashioned thought process that is not in line with the very 21st living room they are conducting their show in.

    Enjoy.

    Hasb-e-Haal Talks About A Girl Who Want's A Career's Dad

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  3. Goodness, that sucks he was disconnected. Then who knows, may he was taken aback by the question. :P

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  4. When the mango climaxes, does he grow a new leaf over his head? :D

    I don't have much to comment, its a great blog post. There was this video I saw thats kinda related to this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VBPM67ddY0&feature=channel_video_title

    Its a bit too ranty and explicit, but 2:30 to 6:00 is a bit relevant. It only presents more problems into this blown up issue.

    I can't believe masturbation can be stopped. Try all you want, it can only result in people feeling guilty over it and a whole new world of pretensions. Which just adds to the problems. People should chill out a bit

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous - glad u enjoyed the illustration, and *ahem* thanks for the great detail on what brands u use.. lol. I can see how u'd think it might be a take on the president, but it actually wasn't ... however, its pretty funny if u think of it that way lol. THe guy is nothing but a wanker.

    TLW - I agree, the Zia administration has damaged the country in ways that'll take more than just a few decades to get over. Lol, come to think of it.. wasn't there a rumour that his plane was destroyed by bomb in a box of mangos? *chuckle*

    I don't agree that sexuality should be contained just to control the population growth, in fact the more we're made aware and the more we're liberated sexually as a nation, the more likely we'd be to make 'informed' decisions. Some of the ideas that the average Pakistani (not the rich privileged kind) has regarding sex, and contraception are truly misguided. If you're interested, in a previous post, I spoke with a girl that worked as a servant... and couldnt stop getting pregnant... you can read what she had to say

    http://nicemangos.blogspot.com/2010/09/politics-of-pleasure.html

    And finally, why yes, i do understand Urdu quite perfectly actually :) its something im very proud of....I do clam up infront of people i dont know too well though :/ and for some reason.... TV Urdu... gets harder... but i watched the link you sent... I understood what they were saying.. but i think the humour was lost on me :/ thanks though, i will improve some day!

    ReplyDelete
  6. RenKiss - does suck eh... seems like too perfect a time to just get 'disconnected'

    LA* - people should chill out a bit shouldnt they... i watched part of the video link... the guy makes a couple of good points in the time frame u mentioned, but yes, it is a little whiny and ranty... most of all if people aregoing to be against something, they better be willing to answer questions and provide logical reasons... lol.. don't u just love it when u'r forbidden from doing something, and you're not really given a reason why... a lot of Pakistani thought, and fundamentalist thought is kind of centered in that way... just do things cuz you were commanded to ... don't ask questions. Oh - haha and porn most certainly doesnt' create serial killers... that was an amusing part in the video.

    In fact i think i'm going to be talking more about porn soon.
    Cheers!

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  7. Yeah, don't ask questions or you'll be sinned/cursed/blasphemer/unholy/heretic/disbeliever and so on. It works for a while, then people start to get suspicious.

    Pakistan is basically going through it's medieval age right now, when witches were accepted without questioning and burnt and so on. The problem is some of pakistan and the rest of the world is far ahead and isn't liking this at all...

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  8. i was waiting desperately to see what he says, pity it never happened, nice try though!

    I wonder why did he not ask you about your grandparents prayer habits though! ;-)

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